MATTHEW 25: 1 - 13 - 10 VIRGINS

[orsel dumanon]

As I study the 10 Virgins in Matthew 25:1 - 13 , It is so interesting topic about these subject ... And I welcome any comments or Discussion Some says the denominations believers ( foolish virgins) and wise virgins ( message believers ) some says the 2 seeds( serpent seeds foolish virgins ) and
( God seeds are the wise virgins )

UNTO YOU , WHO ARE THE 10 VIRGINS, WHY THEY ARE CALLED VIRGINS , WHEN WAS THESE VIRGINS CALLED WISE AND FOOLISH, WHAT WILL HAPPEN UNTO THESE VIRGINS, WHERE ARE THEY NOW.......

GOD BLESS YOU I AM HAPPY IF YOU SHARE

[Observer]

Peace be unto you brother,

As far as I know, the common interpretation or understanding of these 10 virgins among message believers is that the 5 wise virgins are believers with the baptism of the Holy Spirit (oil) and those 5 foolish virgins are those believers without the baptism of the Holy Spirit. While this understanding is so common, I find it faulty.

A careful reading and study of the scriptures Matt. 25:1-13 would tell us that the 5 foolish virgins had oil in their lamps too only that after a long wait the oils in their lamps had gone out. So if the oil represents the baptism of the Holy Spirit, then the 5 foolish virgins have experienced it too.

Some ministers in the message also understands the 10 virgins as those who heard the message of bro. Branham (midnight cry) and some of them are wise in hearing and following the message while the other five are foolish in following the someone or something else, i.e, the flesh of the prophet Branham. While this understanding is very close to what I believe, I have only one reservation. It is because if we follow this understanding, the segregation happened only after the message of bro. Branham was delivered to the world. How about those believers in the 1st to 19th century. Wetre they not virgins? Hmmm.

Having said that, my understanding is this. The 5 wise virgins are those born again believers who heard (and follow) what the Spirit saith unto the churches (message of the hour) while the 5 foolish virgins are those born again believers who failed to hear and follow what the Spirit saith unto the churches (message of the hour). Note: the message of the hour is not necessarily the message of bro. Branham.

I hope this does not create a stir here. :)

God bless you.

[orsel dumanon]

My brother thank you of your reply and I understand of your view yes I also respect your reply ...so we found out that the 5 wise virgins are filled with the Holy Ghost and receive the message of the hour while the foolish virgin were the believers who don't have the holy ghost and have not receive the message of the hour. am I right?..

[Observer]

You said:
"...so we found out that the 5 wise virgins are filled with the Holy Ghost and receive the message of the hour while the foolish virgin were the believers who don't have the holy ghost and have not receive the message of the hour. am I right?.."

No. To put my understanding in synopsis, the 5 wise virgins are those born again believers throughout all church ages (1st - 7th) who heard, obeyed, and followed what the Spirit said unto the churches (message of the hour); while the 5 foolish are practically the same with the 5 wise ones EXCEPT that they failed top hear, obey, & follow what the Spirit said unto the churches.

Having said this, my understanding differs from the common understanding of the "message folks" because I believe those 5 foolish virgins have the baptism of the Holy Spirit while the common "message folks" believe otherwise.

My understanding differs also with our brothers and sisters in the message whose understanding is that the parable of the 10 virgins should only cover the BELIEVERS in the LAST CHURCH AGE because of the word "Then" in the beginning of the parable. I believe that the parable of the 10 virgins covers ALL BELIEVERS FROM THE 1ST CHURCH AGE UP TO THE LAST (7th) CHURCH AGE. It is because the parable of the 10 virgins SPECIFICALLY concerns ALL THOSE WHO JOURNEY TO MEET THE BRIDEGROOM. And from the very 1st Church Age, the journey to meet the Bridegroom had already officially begun.

You may ask how in the world the believers in the 1st to 6th church ages heard the midnight cry? Well, if you understand the midnight cry as the message of bro. Branham, then those believers from the 1st to the 6th church ages would surely not have heard it (midnight cry). However, I believe that the midnight cry should not be understood EXCLUSIVELY as the message of bro. Branham. The way I understand it, the midnight cry is the "message of the hour". The "message of the hour" of the 1st church age believers is different from the "message of the hour" of the believers in the 2nd church age. The same is true with the 3rd, 4th, 5th and so on. The truth is, the "message of the hour" of today to those who have already come back to the Word and have left spiritual Egypt is not the message of bro. Branham anymore! The message of the hour now is in the living ministry of the "voice of the Archangel" in the 5-fold ministry.

In conclusion, every church age has its midnight cry. And that is the "message of the hour" in their respective time. Our "message of the hour" is not the same with the "message of the hour" of our brothers and sisters in the Sardisean Church Age. There is always a "message of the hour" in every period. And that is the midnight cry.

[Bro. David Curtman Sr.]

Bro. Orsel, I would certainly like to mention here for all to read that the serpent seeds are Tares For Burning. They have NO oil. Also, that there will be many Message Believers who will be foolish and miss the rapture, simply because they missed the wedding which is taking place right now here on earth. The setting for the parable is the wedding and not the physical rapture itself. Therefore the Wise virgins hear the Shout and go on to be perfected by the Voice and the Trump ministries. The Foolish virgins hear the Shout, but they do not have enough oil of the Spirit to hear the Voice and go on into perfection and therefore will not hear the Trump. They will however have to go into Tribulation and have to be martyred to prove their faith and will later be resurrected before the Millenium starts. Yes we are all brothers and sisters in the family of God, but some are wise siblings and some are foolish siblings. Which are you reader? That is a very important question in this late hour. May God Bless All, Bro. David Curtman.

[orsel dumanon]

My Brother David I agree with your sharing as early as 1978 I attended a fellowship in southern Philippines and one minister share that the foolish are the believers in the denominations BUT cannot point out where is the wise virgins...To BECOME a virgins one must came out from all denominations and must hear what the spirit says unto the churches so I agree that virgins are the people in the message who hear the shout , because the point is on the midnight cry ( some people believe that the midnight cry is the messenger of the Laodecia ) have little oil cannot continue in the true understanding the message .... I welcome your contribution of this topic GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY

[Bro. David Curtman Sr.]

Yes, It is so sad that some message believers think that the Midnight cry is the messenger to Laodicea instead of the message that was given 'through' the messenger of Laodicea by our Bridegroom Jesus Christ. Thank you again for inviting me to this site and for this forum topic. It is of most importance for all who read it. My family is just my son David Jr and myself now as all the others have left us and went back to the world. Thanks again and may God bless you and your family also Bro. Orsel.

[Julius Cesar]

Hi there brother,

As for me, the 10 virgins are those people who were purged, cleansed and sanctified by the Word, that is, the Message of the Hour (not necessarily brother Branham's), hence, they are called "virgins". It is the Word that cleanses and sanctifies, if I'm not mistaken.

But the foolish virgins did NOT have any oil, as I have read and prove it many times, when these virgins are mentioned in Scriptures and in the sermons of brother Branham, it is always negative that the foolish ones have oil. They cannot have oil, if they have, it is not appropriate anymore to call them foolish. The reason why they are called "foolish" was because of the fact that they brought lamps with them but didn't mind for the oil! Funny. ^^,

Although foolish virgins are not restricted from having gifts, they are expected to lack Holy Ghost. Anyone can "taste" Holy Ghost but it doesn't mean that they automatically got It. Canaan is type of the Holy Ghost. The ten spies tasted the fruits of Canaan, even knew and experienced the sweetness of the fruits of It, to say it in literal. But they didn't got to Canaan. They never had. That's why they are carefully typed to borderline Christians or believers. Borderline believers, as the adjective suggests, didn't got to Canaan, the Holy Ghost. They reached the border and stop right there.

Likewise are the five foolish virgins. Although they are called "virgins" because of their state of having been justified and purified, they are fools for rejecting the Holy Spirit. You cannot find a verse or passage in the Bible that foolish virgins got some Holy Ghost prior to the Rapture. I think the same with brother Branham's sermons.

Regards.

[Bro. Andrew]

Hi brother,

You said:
"But the foolish virgins did NOT have any oil, as I have read and prove it many times, when these virgins are mentioned in Scriptures and in the sermons of brother Branham, it is always negative that the foolish ones have oil. They cannot have oil, if they have, it is not appropriate anymore to call them foolish. The reason why they are called "foolish" was because of the fact that they brought lamps with them but didn't mind for the oil! Funny. ^^"

I say:
I think you did not read Matthew 25:1-13 correctly. A closer look into the said Scriptures would make your understanding a little bit off tangent. Let's look at Matt. 25:1-13, specifically verses 1-8:

Matthew 25:1-13 (King James Version)

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Reading just the verse 3 in ISOLATION of the rest of the aforementioned Scriptures, then you may be right. But verse 3 is IN CONTEXT with the rest of the Scriptures in Matt. 25:1-13. Now please take a closer look at verse 4 and verse 8. In verse 4, it is said that that the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. The wise did not just took or put oil in their lamps! The wise took or put oil in the VESSEL (extra vessel!) with their lamps!

Thus, both the Wise and Foolish Virgins have oil in their lamps. The only difference is that the Wise took extra oil in their extra vessels while the Foolish just contented with the oil in their lamps!

It is further supported in verse 8, where the Foolish said "...our lamps are gone out!" Other translation rendered it as "...our lamps are going out!" Remember, the Foolish Virgins uttered these words after they had slumbered and slept. It seems that all the time while they were asleep, their lamps (both Wise and Foolish Virgins) were lighting. Then they were awakened by the voice of the Midnight Cry. Only then the Foolish virgins noticed that their lamps are going out!

Please take note of the other Bible Translations of Matthew 25:1-8 to know what I am talking about.

Matthew 25:1-8 (New International Version)
1"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'
7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'

Matthew 25:1-8 (New American Standard Bible)
1"Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2"Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent.
3"For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,
4but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.
5"Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.
6"But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.'
7"Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.
8"The foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'

Matthew 25:1-8 (Amplified Bible)
1THEN THE kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.
2Five of them were foolish (thoughtless, without forethought) and five were wise (sensible, intelligent, and prudent).
3For when the foolish took their lamps, they did not take any [extra] oil with them;
4But the wise took flasks of oil along with them [also] with their lamps.
5While the bridegroom lingered and was slow in coming, they all began nodding their heads, and they fell asleep.
6But at midnight there was a shout, Behold, the bridegroom! Go out to meet him!
7Then all those virgins got up and put their own lamps in order.
8And the foolish said to the wise, Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.

Matthew 25:1-8 (New Living Translation)
“Then the Kingdom of Heaven will be like ten bridesmaids[a] who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 The five who were foolish didn’t take enough olive oil for their lamps, 4 but the other five were wise enough to take along extra oil. 5 When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “At midnight they were roused by the shout, ‘Look, the bridegroom is coming! Come out and meet him!’
7 “All the bridesmaids got up and prepared their lamps. 8 Then the five foolish ones asked the others, ‘Please give us some of your oil because our lamps are going out.’

Matthew 25:1-8 (English Standard Version)
1"Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps[a] and went to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6But at midnight there was a cry, 'Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.' 7Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'

Matthew 25:1-8 (Contemporary English Version)
1The kingdom of heaven is like what happened one night when ten girls took their oil lamps and went to a wedding to meet the groom. [a] 2Five of the girls were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps, but no extra oil. 4The ones who were wise took along extra oil for their lamps. 5The groom was late arriving, and the girls became drowsy and fell asleep. 6Then in the middle of the night someone shouted, "Here's the groom! Come to meet him!"
7When the girls got up and started getting their lamps ready, 8the foolish ones said to the others, "Let us have some of your oil! Our lamps are going out."


Matthew 25:1-8 (Young's Literal Translation)
1`Then shall the reign of the heavens be likened to ten virgins, who, having taken their lamps, went forth to meet the bridegroom;
2and five of them were prudent, and five foolish;
3they who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil;
4and the prudent took oil in their vessels, with their lamps.
5`And the bridegroom tarrying, they all nodded and were sleeping,
6and in the middle of the night a cry was made, Lo, the bridegroom doth come; go ye forth to meet him.
7`Then rose all those virgins, and trimmed their lamps,
8and the foolish said to the prudent, Give us of your oil, because our lamps are going out;

Matthew 25:1-8 (Wycliffe New Testament)
1 Then the kingdom of heavens shall be like to ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went out to meet the husband and the wife;
2 and five of them were fools, and five prudent.
3 But the five fools took their lamps, and took not oil with them;
4 but the prudent took oil in their vessels with the lamps.
5 And whiles the husband [the spouse, or husband,] tarried, all they napped and slept.
6 But at midnight a cry was made, Lo! the spouse cometh, go ye out to meet with him [go ye out to meet him].
7 Then all those virgins rose up, and arrayed their lamps [and adorned their lamps].
8 And the fools said to the wise, Give ye to us of your oil, for our lamps be quenched.


Matthew 25:1-8 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins [a] who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible. 3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn't take oil with them. 4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps. 5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 "In the middle of the night there was a shout: 'Here's the groom! Come out to meet him.'
7 "Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps. 8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, 'Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.'


Cebuano Bible
Matthew 25:1-8
1 "Ug ang gingharian sa langit iga-pakasama sa napulo ka mga dalagang birhin nga nanagdala sa ilang mga lamparahan ug miadto sa pagsugat sa pamanhonon.2 Ang lima kanila mga boangboang, ug ang lima mga but-an.3 Kay ang mga boangboang, sa pagdala nila sa ilang mga lamparahan, wala magdalag lana;4 apan ang mga but-an nanagdalag mga prasko nga sinudlan ug lana uban sa ilang mga lamparahan.5 Ug kay ang pamanhonon nadugay man sa pag-abut, silang tanan nanagpirat ug nahikatulog. 6 Apan sa pagkatungang gabii dihay singgit nga nag-ingon, `Tan-awa, ang pamanhonon! Panggula kamo ug sugata ninyo siya? 7 Ug namangon silang tanan nga mga dalaga ug gihikay nila ang ilang mga lamparahan. 8 Ug ang mga boangboang miingon sa mga but-an, `Hatagi kamig lana kay nagakapalong kining among mga lamparahan.`


It is very clear that the Foolish Virgins lighted their lamps too. But through the course of time, because the Bridegroom tarried, the oil in their lamps are severely depleted causing their lamps to quench!

Thus it is important for us to read the Scriptures and see if our understanding is in line with the text and the context, not just rely on what we heard and accept it as "gospel truths" without examining the Scriptures ourselves! Let us be "Berean" believers.

God bless.


Bro. Andrew.

[Julius Cesar]

Hi brother!

Thanks for quoting all those verses. That's nice and resourceful of you.They are essentially the same and one or two is sufficient enough though. But I wonder if I could light a lamp and maybe keep it alight for sometime? I think it's possible. Using a wick that's made of cotton or something and wetting it with a kind of wax or something might do. Having the lamp burning for a while does not necessarily mean it has some oil in it because it did burned for a while. Contrasting wise virgins against foolish ones for having brought vessels for reservation don't necessarily mean that foolish did have some oil but without reservation either.

The whole point is that VERSE 3 IS AN ABSOLUTE STATEMENT.

They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them... could only mean nothing more or less but that the foolish virgins took no oil with them.
With the 11 quotations you provided, one stands out, the passage from Amplified Bible (weird name for a Bible version ^^,). I just don't know the meaning of the word having braces really means. Maybe it got some special meaning since it won't be there in a special way if it means nothing.

The Bible would be out of Its character if it says in Its certainty that the foolish virgins brought no oil with them then later in its proceeding statements "imples" that they did brought some.

Another question will arise if we take the parable into its real meaning. How could a 'lamp' filled with Holy Ghost gone quenched when Holy Ghost is eternal? Does it mean that we need a reservoir or bag or something to store enough Holy Ghost? A reserved Holy Ghost? This is new to me. Maybe I should hear more of it yet from you brothers about this.

If you got the Holy Ghost, you got It eternally, not that It stays with you a little while then gone out next time you smile.

I think I've heard this belief already, maybe similar to it.

Regards. ^^,

[Bro. Andrew]

Brother,

You said:
"Thanks for quoting all those verses. That's nice and resourceful of you.They are essentially the same and one or two is sufficient enough though. But I wonder if I could light a lamp and maybe keep it alight for sometime? I think it's possible. Using a wick that's made of cotton or something and wetting it with a kind of wax or something might do. Having the lamp burning for a while does not necessarily mean it has some oil in it because it did burned for a while. Contrasting wise virgins against foolish ones for having brought vessels for reservation don't necessarily mean that foolish did have some oil but without reservation either."


I say:
Yes, I know. The Scriptures I've quoted is essentially the same and one or two would be more than enough to those saints who prayerfully sought the truth. The reason I quoted many different translations for you to have a clearer picture of what the Scriptures is talking about. If one or two translation would be enough, I assumed that 10 or more translations would clarify things and erases all questions. But, alas, I was wrong! More than 10 translations of the Scriptures are clearly not enough to you!

You said "But I wonder if I could light a lamp and maybe keep it alight for sometime? I think it's possible." Huh? The lamps are burning for hours without oil?! Remember the cry happened in the midnight. In the context of Jewish marriage tradition, the virgins must have started their journey early evening.

You said:
"The whole point is that VERSE 3 IS AN ABSOLUTE STATEMENT.
They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them... could only mean nothing more or less but that the foolish virgins took no oil with them."


I say:
Do you really believe that verse 3 should be isolated from the rest of the verses in the parable? Yes, the Bible says that the "foolish virgins took no oil with them" but it does not say that the lamps of the foolish virgins have no oil! Verses 4 and 8 implied that the lamps of the foolish virgins have oil. Did you ever consider that when the Bible says "the foolish virgins took no oil with them" it may refer to the extra vessel of oil that the foolish virgins did not bring? If you just read Matt. 25:1-13 without prejudice, I think you will see it like I do.

I understand where you are coming from. In fact, I was taught and believed since I was a child that the foolish virgins lamps have no oil. But after more than 30 years, when I read Matt. 25:1-13, I realized that I was wrong.


You said:
"The Bible would be out of Its character if it says in Its certainty that the foolish virgins brought no oil with them then later in its proceeding statements "imples" that they did brought some."

I say:
This statement of yours would be correct if the Bible is talking of oil IN THE SAME vessel. But it is not! There is enough information throughout the parable that the Bible is talking of extra oil in the vessel other than their lamps. I may say that I did not bring any money in my bag. But it doesn't necessarily mean that I have no money in my pocket! :)

You said:
"Another question will arise if we take the parable into its real meaning. How could a 'lamp' filled with Holy Ghost gone quenched when Holy Ghost is eternal? Does it mean that we need a reservoir or bag or something to store enough Holy Ghost? A reserved Holy Ghost? This is new to me. Maybe I should hear more of it yet from you brothers about this.
If you got the Holy Ghost, you got It eternally, not that It stays with you a little while then gone out next time you smile."

I say:
Hehe. Have you heard of the CONTINUAL INFILLING of the Holy Spirit just like the continual filling of wine in a glass? Ephesians 5:18 says"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;" Apostle Paul wrote the said Epistle to Ephesians believers, who we can safely assume have the baptism of the Holy Spirit already. Yet, Paul reminds them to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit! Have you read or heard what Apostle Paul said in his other epistle like "Quench not the Spirit"? I hope these will solve your problem.

The chief difference between with the Wise and the Foolish Virgins is not really the baptism of the Holy Ghost. It is how or what have they done to the Holy Spirit Who is in them. Have they heard what the Spirit says? Have they obeyed Him and yield their lives completely to Him?

We must remember that they are both virgins. They both heard the Midnight Cry. They are Christ's people, so to speak. Rom. 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Brother, I am not a subscriber to the belief that you may be saved today and then be doomed tomorrow. Clearly, the gifts of God are without repentance. Once you are saved, you are always and forever saved! However, the Foolish Virgins are saved people too, right? Their problem is in the preparation to meet the Bridegroom brother. They are not prudent enough.

God bless you

[Julius Cesar]

Hi brother Andrew!

Like you, our fellow brothers here in Balongis, Cagayan de Oro also believe that Foolish Virgins in Matthew 25 got oil. I learned that while we're discussing about Judas Iscariot. They believe that Judas Iscariot got filled with the Holy Ghost. Now I remember. Off topic.

Back to our discussion, it is not necessary to keep the lamps of the Foolish Virgins burning for hours, like you said, evening to midnight.
What's important is Foolish Virgin's lamps did burn, then after a while, because of lack of oil, gone out. The Scriptures don't restrict this assumption.

I understood what you were trying to tell me even before you quoted the verses from different translations. Even though I have a poor grasp in this language, your English is somehow clear to me. You argue that the Foolish Virgins did have some oil in their lamps because of the key phrases "took oil in their vessels with their lamps, and "The foolish ones took their lamps, but no extra oil". These phrases help your argument only a little. It would be good passages to highlight if they only POSITIVELY say that the Foolish Virgins did took oil with them. But sadly, they didn't. What your arguments have are only assumptions and hypothesis and your own interpretation of what the passages mean. Another 'key phrase' you highlighted was "for our lamps are gone out". But as I already pointed out, I could safely assume too that the Foolish' lamps gone out long before they woke up. So we don't need to hold the idea that the Foolish's lamps were burning for hours then only gone out after they heard the midnight cry.

Brother, I think your analogy is flawed. The statement "Brother Andrew took no money with him" is an absolute statement. It won't matter where brother Andrew hid or placed his money, be it hidden under his socks or hat, as long as he took money with him, the statement above is false. It left us no middle ground.

Brother Andrew took no money with him.
The statement is clear. If brother Andrew somehow brought money with him, the statement above is a false statement. It's either he took no money with him, or the statement is false. Hiding the money inside his pocket instead of keeping it inside his wallet won't change a thing. He still took money with him.

Most of the translations you cited POSITIVELY stated that the Foolish Virgins took no oil. Other less common translations imply, only (arbitrarily) imply that Foolish Virgins did brought lamps with oil but without reservations. Our interpretations of the verses just to show how the Foolish Virgins came to have oil are only arbitrary (if I used the correct word ^^,).

(I can argue using solely the Scriptures that Jesus Christ can't die on Friday afternoon and rise on Sunday morning but rather died on Wednesday afternoon and risen on Saturday afternoon, using the Scriptures, Old and New, without harming it's integrity with the Scriptures, without causing any contradictions against any verse.)

The interpretations you provided is open to question but with my limited knowledge, I cannot bring the questions any deeper anymore. I cannot even put your arguments under proper scrutiny because I don't even know a Greek word or two. But there is no information that tells us that Foolish Virgins did brought oil with them. Because if the information exists, we won't be discussing here whether they did brought oil or not. ^^,

But just what's the difference between the Wise and the Foolish Virgins? If they both got Oil, why were the Foolish Virgins unable to enter the gate? Ran out of Oil. They ran out of Holy Ghost! Things here's getting weirder. The eternal Holy Ghost gone ran out. You say the problem's lies on how or what the Foolish Virgins had done to the Holy Ghost Who is in them. If we take a look back at the parable, both the Wise and the Foolish waited for the Groom, both slumbered, and both heard the midnight cry, so what's the problem with the Foolish? Why and how did they lost It? Was the Holy Ghost supposed to teach us (including the Foolish Virgins, if they got It) ALL things? So what really happened? Why they failed? Having filled with the Holy Ghost means we have the Great Teacher in us. But still, the Foolish failed. If you got the Holy Ghost, you got It eternally. But the Foolish lost It. How? The Lord is not an Indian giver. Or does God gives Holy Ghost to someone even with the foreknowledge that that someone's only going to loss It?

Hmmm.

Regards.

[Bro. Andrew]

Shalom, brother Julius!

Thanks for teaching me in the other thread how to apply colors to the text. I'll try to do it here, hehe. Thanks again.

Your statements are in blue while mine are in purple.

Like you, our fellow brothers here in Balongis, Cagayan de Oro also believe that Foolish Virgins in Matthew 25 got oil. I learned that while we're discussing about Judas Iscariot. They believe that Judas Iscariot got filled with the Holy Ghost. Now I remember. Off topic.

No brother, I am not one of those brothers. I don't believe that Judas Iscariot got the baptism of the Holy Ghost. How can Judas Iscariot had the baptism of the Holy Ghost? It may be of help to you to quote to them the following Scriptures in John 7:37-39.
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


Back to our discussion, it is not necessary to keep the lamps of the Foolish Virgins burning for hours, like you said, evening to midnight.
What's important is Foolish Virgin's lamps did burn, then after a while, because of lack of oil, gone out. The Scriptures don't restrict this assumption.
I understood what you were trying to tell me even before you quoted the verses from different translations. Even though I have a poor grasp in this language, your English is somehow clear to me. You argue that the Foolish Virgins did have some oil in their lamps because of the key phrases "took oil in their vessels with their lamps, and "The foolish ones took their lamps, but no extra oil". These phrases help your argument only a little. It would be good passages to highlight if they only POSITIVELY say that the Foolish Virgins did took oil with them. But sadly, they didn't. What your arguments have are only assumptions and hypothesis and your own interpretation of what the passages mean. Another 'key phrase' you highlighted was "for our lamps are gone out". But as I already pointed out, I could safely assume too that the Foolish' lamps gone out long before they woke up. So we don't need to hold the idea that the Foolish's lamps were burning for hours then only gone out after they heard the midnight cry.

You are not reading the parable correctly brother. Try to re-read it again and then consider verses 7 and 8. You will then know that your understanding is flawed!

How could you "safely assume" that the lamps of the foolish virgins have gone out long before they woke up?! Verse 7 implies that ALL of the virgins' lamps (including the foolish virgins' lamps, of course) are still flickering. The Scriptures says they TRIMMED their lamps, it doesn't say "they lighted their lamps again"! Verse 8 further supported this by the clause "for our lamps are going out", meaning the lamps of the foolish virgins are still flickering, albeit they are about to quench! Please re-read the parable brother, it's there.

Brother, I think your analogy is flawed. The statement "Brother Andrew took no money with him" is an absolute statement. It won't matter where brother Andrew hid or placed his money, be it hidden under his socks or hat, as long as he took money with him, the statement above is false. It left us no middle ground.
Brother Andrew took no money with him.
The statement is clear. If brother Andrew somehow brought money with him, the statement above is a false statement. It's either he took no money with him, or the statement is false. Hiding the money inside his pocket instead of keeping it inside his wallet won't change a thing. He still took money with him.

How could my analogy be flawed? My analogy is based on the assumption (which is strongly supported by the quoted Scriptures) that the parable is talking of an extra vessels of oil the foolish virgins didn't bring. Here is my original statement: I may say that I did not bring any money in my bag. But it doesn't necessarily mean that I have no money in my pocket! :) You see it now?

The problem is that you read verse 3 and isolate it from other verses in the parable! If you chose to read a story like that, I could see that you will read almost all stories wrongly. Picking one line of the story and isolating it from its context would be a disaster in a "reading comprehension" test.

Your understanding of the sentence "Bro. Andrew took no money with him." is correct. Yes, brother, you are right in your conclusion. It is because it is only a declarative sentence without a context. If this sentence is a part of a story, then you ought to understand it in the context of the said story, right? Thus, it's your analogy which is flawed, not mine!

Most of the translations you cited POSITIVELY stated that the Foolish Virgins took no oil. Other less common translations imply, only (arbitrarily) imply that Foolish Virgins did brought lamps with oil but without reservations. Our interpretations of the verses just to show how the Foolish Virgins came to have oil are only arbitrary (if I used the correct word ^^,).

How can it be arbitrary when it's there in the parable? The reason I quoted more than 10 translations of the parable is for us to have a clearer picture of the parable. Other translations have a clearer wordings of verse 3. But you chose to ignore them. It may because those translations are not in line with what you are taught and believed. It's okay, brother.

The interpretations you provided is open to question but with my limited knowledge, I cannot bring the questions any deeper anymore. I cannot even put your arguments under proper scrutiny because I don't even know a Greek word or two. But there is no information that tells us that Foolish Virgins did brought oil with them. Because if the information exists, we won't be discussing here whether they did brought oil or not.

The foolish virgins didn't brought oil IN EXTRA VESSEL with them, yes. But to say that their lamps have no oil is not accurate at all. The lamps of the foolish virgins did burn for hours. To say their lamps have no oil is preposterous!

But just what's the difference between the Wise and the Foolish Virgins? If they both got Oil, why were the Foolish Virgins unable to enter the gate? Ran out of Oil. They ran out of Holy Ghost! Things here's getting weirder. The eternal Holy Ghost gone ran out. You say the problem's lies on how or what the Foolish Virgins had done to the Holy Ghost Who is in them. If we take a look back at the parable, both the Wise and the Foolish waited for the Groom, both slumbered, and both heard the midnight cry, so what's the problem with the Foolish? Why and how did they lost It? Was the Holy Ghost supposed to teach us (including the Foolish Virgins, if they got It) ALL things? So what really happened? Why they failed? Having filled with the Holy Ghost means we have the Great Teacher in us. But still, the Foolish failed. If you got the Holy Ghost, you got It eternally. But the Foolish lost It. How? The Lord is not an Indian giver. Or does God gives Holy Ghost to someone even with the foreknowledge that that someone's only going to loss It?

If you read the parable carefully, the foolish virgins lamps almost (but did not COMPLETELY) ran out of oil. In fact, they were able to go to the oil merchant to by additional oil in the thick of the night. If their lamps are completely quenched, it would be very hard to do that, right? So saying that the foolish virgins COMPLETELY lost the Holy Ghost is a little bit overstretching of the text.

I will re-post this one to answer your concerns about the Holy Ghost. Have you heard of the CONTINUAL INFILLING of the Holy Spirit just like the continual filling of wine in a glass? Ephesians 5:18 says"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;" Apostle Paul wrote the said Epistle to Ephesians believers, who we can safely assume have the baptism of the Holy Spirit already. Yet, Paul reminds them to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit! Have you read or heard what Apostle Paul said in his other epistle like "Quench not the Spirit"? I hope these will solve your problem.

The foolish virgins have not lost the Holy Ghost. They are born again believers. They have the Spirit of Christ, otherwise, they are none of His. The problem lies in how they live their lives in preparing to meet the Bridegroom. They haven't obeyed and completely yielded their lives to the Holy Ghost Who are in them. Please read Romans chapter 7. Bro. Branham's story or of "white dog" and "black dog" somewhat applies here. The foolish virgins are those born again believers whose "black dog" is not yet tamed. In fact their respective "white dog" and "black dog" are still in a fierce battle.

The Wise Virgins are overcomers. They are the Bride. Their respective "black dog" is tamed already. They live in the fullness of the Spirit.

It is not about the baptism of the Holy Ghost, brother, that will qualify you to the translation or rapture. You may have the baptism of the Holy Ghost but still be left behind.

God bless.


Bro. Andrew